Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

[Finney Is Back]

The point was, DL clearly raised yours and others expectations to keep talking the comparisons you have fot the last 10 years or so. Absolutely no chance you were comparing us to that level of club when we were finishing 14th, 11th &10th the years before he took the reins.

And there was me thinking people wanted Sugar out precisely because of that?

 

[Baleforce]

Says who. Who did he block?

Our recruitment team rarely get their first choices, our club has a terrible history of taking 3rd or 4th choices and them being bad buys. Mostly late in the summer as well. When did Levy ever intervene on these?

Levy's squad strategy and management working with Harry was as bad as I've ever seen. We all knew the new squad quotas were coming in and we still ended up with 35 players over 21 at the start of every summer for 4 years. We haemorrhaged money on salaries for players that had no 1st team impact and we couldn't manouvere in the transfer market and get high quality, fresh blood in place. Don't even get me started on Steve Pienaar.

Levy was terrible in the 2-in-the-box model. He always needed football DAN around him other than his managers.

Michael Ricketts, Michael bridges, Marcus bent, Marcus stewart, james Beattie, pick your one season wonder

 

[Baleforce]

I am, as you know, greatly appreciative of the superb work Levy did off the pitch. Genius. Honestly the best ever.

His transfer dealings/method? Not so much.
Season after season we played games and did not get players in until days before a season started -or sometimes a game or so into it- which consistently cost us. He often ended up over-paying in order to get something across the line knowing it would otherwise be a bust. I laughed when Simon Jordan said he got that text from Levy that we'd had our pants pulled down; from a man who spent 65 million on Solanke nonetheless...

but now we've signed a 10-15m player for 52m just to get it done early

that is not sustainable for a club that has to balance the books

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

And there was me thinking people wanted Sugar out precisely because of that?

Were they? Who? A bunch of dinlows who believed we should be attracting players that were being signed and paid for by clubs like United, Liverpool and Arsenal at that time? Come off it mate.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I am, as you know, greatly appreciative of the superb work Levy did off the pitch. Genius. Honestly the best ever.

His transfer dealings/method? Not so much.
Season after season we played games and did not get players in until days before a season started -or sometimes a game or so into it- which consistently cost us. He often ended up over-paying in order to get something across the line knowing it would otherwise be a bust. I laughed when Simon Jordan said he got that text from Levy that we'd had our pants pulled down; from a man who spent 65 million on Solanke nonetheless...

I think it’s also strange in the other direction, he’d pay fairly big money for certain players if he felt like the club had a weakness to exploit, because that would help his sense of getting a ‘good deal’. It wasn’t about whether that player fit perfectly with what the manager tried to do, it was about whether something about the deal made it look like we came out on top.

Very rarely this ended with a Van Der Vaart, but more often than not it was these bizarre deals like the amount we paid for Sissoko (who I actually liked a lot!), even Brennan arguably. And then mucking around on Grealish.

With all of that in mind, it’s weird that to think that spending big money on JPVH is where he draws the line. Yes his contract is winding down. But is that any worse than letting players like Sissoko go for peanuts after paying so much? Or having our former first choice keeper Gomes just not even making the bench for a year or two and going for nothing? It’s all a really weird method to look like he never loses…meanwhile he’s actually paying quite high amounts for players that have a questionable fit to the managers system and then letting other player’s value decline because he just couldn’t move them out quickly enough.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry mate, but that bolded is simply not fully true. Yes revenues were rising but that didn't impact the clubs valuation or Levy wealth, what he did with the club commercially did that more so. Building the stadium, having the foresight to make it into a commercial powerhouse, making the NFL deal. It was his foresight and hard work over 20 years that made the quantum leap for the club financially and yeh it was aided by the PL money etc all, but it was never covering what was needed before the stadium to push on.

The footballing decision declined, but he was never as bad as people made out, yes he lucked out with some, but before the stadium or ability to flip players for major profits and go again, running at Net Zero and still have the club operating in Europe more years than not, that doesn't come from being crap on the footballing side. Where those wheels came off was when the operational side became to big, thats not not recognising flaws thats taking the eye off the ball and making some bad decisions (there isn't an owner/chair base that hasn't).

Overall, Levy had flaws, like I say, all in football do, from players to owners, but we are a much better club than before he took over, he undoubtedly raised expectations in our support base, just look at these pages to see that and he undoubtedly future proofed the club on the commercial side that will have a lasting impact for the good moving forward.

I think chasing the NFL franchise is actually a bad thing. It caused the stadium spend to go through the roof and had left us with high operating costs, and even if Tottenham did get an NFL franchise it would only benefit the owners net worth and not THFC itself. I think it is one of the perfect examples of ENIC putting a higher emphasis on their own wealth over football at Spurs.

 

[Muttley]

Sorry mate, but that bolded is simply not fully true. Yes revenues were rising but that didn't impact the clubs valuation or Levy wealth, what he did with the club commercially did that more so. Building the stadium, having the foresight to make it into a commercial powerhouse, making the NFL deal. It was his foresight and hard work over 20 years that made the quantum leap for the club financially and yeh it was aided by the PL money etc all, but it was never covering what was needed before the stadium to push on.

The footballing decision declined, but he was never as bad as people made out, yes he lucked out with some, but before the stadium or ability to flip players for major profits and go again, running at Net Zero and still have the club operating in Europe more years than not, that doesn't come from being crap on the footballing side. Where those wheels came off was when the operational side became to big, thats not not recognising flaws thats taking the eye off the ball and making some bad decisions (there isn't an owner/chair base that hasn't).

Overall, Levy had flaws, like I say, all in football do, from players to owners, but we are a much better club than before he took over, he undoubtedly raised expectations in our support base, just look at these pages to see that and he undoubtedly future proofed the club on the commercial side that will have a lasting impact for the good moving forward.

Come on, ENIC bought this club for less than £50m and in 2016 it had an enterprise valuation of over a billion. That is 3 years before the stadium went live. What you say is complete revisionism to me. Every PL club's valuation went up because of the money flooding into football from the consumer. Our football became a massive export around the globe. Foreign players flooded in and we marketed the PL to become the powerhouse of football. All you needed to do was ride that money chain.

Levy of course went over and above that with his own items, and run things well. However, let's never be in denial that he could only do that because of the increasing valuation due to the macro environment of football in this millennium. Levy probably doesn't do any of the major plays we've seen without that.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

The point was, DL clearly raised yours and others expectations to keep talking the comparisons you have fot the last 10 years or so. Absolutely no chance you were comparing us to that level of club when we were finishing 14th, 11th &10th the years before he took the reigns.

This is absolutely correct. And then once the stadium is built, and we can pay higher wages, and we have more commercial revenues, and billionaire owners, what is the reason then we can’t do what Liverpool have done?

Levy deserves all the credit for getting us in that conversation. But then we needed to push on. Why couldn’t we do a Liverpool, now, with our resources?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think chasing the NFL franchise is actually a bad thing. It caused the stadium spend to go through the roof and had left us with high operating costs, and even if Tottenham did get an NFL franchise it would only benefit the owners net worth and not THFC itself. I think it is one of the perfect examples of ENIC putting a higher emphasis on their own wealth over football at Spurs.

Like any construction that has a long time legacy benefit for future commercial. It means we can also have as mamy events as we have because of the design which means more money into revenue for players.

You build something people wanna use, its going to cost more, but the long term benefits outweigh the short term

 

[Finney Is Back]

Were they? Who? A bunch of dinlows who believed we should be attracting players that were being signed and paid for by clubs like United, Liverpool and Arsenal at that time? Come off it mate.

There was a big protest about getting Sugar out, far bigger in numbers and more vociferous than the Levy out mob.

Alan Sugar was absolutely brilliant for Levy and ENIC, he stabilised the finances and then tricked some Spurs fans into thinking that we were t a big club with massive (rich) support

 

[Muttley]

Michael Ricketts, Michael bridges, Marcus bent, Marcus stewart, james Beattie, pick your one season wonder

Why would you associate that with Levy though?

Levy also went all in on all those players names beginning with N. Where was his football DNA then?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

There was a big protest about getting Sugar out, far bigger in numbers and more vociferous than the Levy out mob.

Because of Venebles. That was the only protest of note, and that was because El Tel had convinced fans he was in the wrong, when he wasnt

 

[Finney Is Back]

Like any construction that has a long time legacy benefit for future commercial. It means we can also have as mamy events as we have because of the design which means more money into revenue for players.

You build something people wanna use, its going to cost more, but the long term benefits outweigh the short term

Looking at our non football operating costs I’m not convinced we make a great deal of profit on the additional stadium events. It could well be that a standard build stadium used only for additional events with the stadium in football mode actually left more money that could be invested in the football team.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Because of Venebles. That was the only protest of note, and that was because El Tel had convinced fans he was in the wrong, when he wasnt

No it wasn’t. The Sugar out protests came way after Venables. They were in George Graham’s time at the club.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Looking at our non football operating costs I’m not convinced we make a great deal of profit on the additional stadium events. It could well be that a standard build stadium used only for additional events with the stadium in football mode actually left more money that could be invested in the football team.

Not without the retractable pitch you couldn't and not in the numbers you couldn't.

Brexit, Covid, Ukraine and Iran are having and have had a greater impact on the initial finances than nything and no one foresaw those.

There is not doubt the commercials have improved the clubs prospects in the market.

 

[Muttley]

Because of Venebles

Indeed, interesting times. Venables was endeared by the fans, and then lost out in the biggest way in the legal battles. Sugar was inevitably just protecting our football club in the actions he took in my opinion.

It always saddens me when these great coaches want to step into that other space. Just like 'Arry. Give him a squad and let him get on with it. Don't let him near the other decision processes as he always gets you in trouble. I remember when he sat there with 35 squad players and then blamed Levy for not getting him big signings. That's after taking up the wage bill by 40% and spending his own transfer budget on players salaries that he'd never select. Crazy times, and so sad as we had a strong foundation of a squad.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

No it wasn’t. The Sugar out protests came way after Venables. They were in George Graham’s time at the club.

Absolutely nothing of real note, a few people A4 paper signs at the odd fixture.

Anyway, thats not real point to the original. No normal fan was demanding we made the signings the top 4 at the time were making by the late 90s, absolutely not, most normal fans saw a Man United and Arsenal as clubs who had absolutely left us in the gutter. So for anyone to now make comparisons in market with such clubs means the expectations were raised under DL time. Which isn't a surprise considering the fact our league form improved beyond recognition and we spent the longest consistent time in Europe in the clubs history

 

[Baleforce]

Why would you associate that with Levy though?

Levy also went all in on all those players names beginning with N. Where was his football DNA then?

Players we refused to pay the asking price for, quite rightly as they all turned out to be brick.

I think people ignore that, the products you say no to are as important to a business as those you say yes to.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Absolutely nothing of real note, a few people A4 paper signs at the odd fixture.

Anyway, thats not real point to the original. No normal fan was demanding we made the signings the top 4 at the time was making, absolutely not, most normal fans saw a Man United and Arsenal as clubs who had absolutely left us in the gutter. So for anyone to now make comparisons in market with such clubs means the expectations were raised under DL time. Which isn't a surprise considering the fact our league form improved beyond recognition and we spent the longest consistent time in Europe in the clubs history

Sorry but you’re either too young to remember (I don’t know how old you are) you misremember or you don’t want to remember because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I remember the protests as I was part of them along with a bunch of others on the old SIMB message board (I could be wrong here but I think that @thfcsteff may have been involved as well - though it might have been a different steff?

The fans wanted Sugarvout because of his lack of ambition for the club. It was several years after Venables had departed

 

[Muttley]

Players we refused to pay the asking price for, quite rightly as they all turned out to be brick.

I think people ignore that, the products you say no to are as important to a business as though you say yes to.

That is my point about leadership though. Understanding the gaps in your own portfolio is critically important to being a great leader. You bring in people with those skills. Levy didn't. He just made his own football operational decisions and didn't hire into his own gaps.

Be interesting to see whether people feel we would have had van Hecke closed at £52m in a Levy tenure. I think most would sense probably not to be fair. Whether that is fair on him or not is sort of irrelevant. We saw so much smoke over the years in these situations to draw that conclusion.