Lucas Bergvall

[harr1984]

not that we really have a choice, but do you?

Would you be ok if we sold Vuskovic, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Romero, Odobert, Dragusin Tel and brought in Tonali, Savino, Fernandes plus those already through the door?

I've always felt a manager has to have some give, some part of helping the club outside of just his success remit, not sure I'm a 100% comfortable with jetsoning all our youth for the immediate now .. how is that any different from a Conte/Jose play?

This getting rid of all our youth has been greatly exaggerated. He has made clear he likes Tel both by playing him and words, he has spoken about his excitement for Grays potential. He has also name checked Xavi Simons a lot.

We have a CB who has never played for us and Bergvall who wasn't getting real game time under any manager bar Ange. I'm not sure how that equates to 'jettisoning all our youth' and the cold reality is that the majority of them won't reach the level we would like them to anyway....

 

[robp135]

This getting rid of all our youth has been greatly exaggerated. He has made clear he likes Tel both by playing him and words, he has spoken about his excitement for Grays potential. He has also name checked Xavi Simons a lot.

We have a CB who has never played for us and Bergvall who wasn't getting real game time under any manager bar Ange. I'm not sure how that equates to 'jettisoning all our youth' and the cold reality is that the majority of them won't reach the level we would like them to anyway....

And he is going with Kinsky in goal.

 

[Ace Face]

Tbf I can’t recall a game where Bergvall has made me think “holy s*** what an absolute gem we have on our hands!”. He’s had moments and decent games but nothing that has made me think he is the future of our midfield.

Whereas Gray has been rock solid in whichever position he’s shoehorned into. And the first leg against AM was a “holy s***” game for me.

 

[robp135]

Tbf I can’t recall a game where Bergvall has made me think “holy s*** what an absolute gem we have on our hands!”. He’s had moments and decent games but nothing that has made me think he is the future of our midfield.

Whereas Gray has been rock solid in whichever position he’s shoehorned into. And the first leg against AM was a “holy s***” game for me.

Liverpool in the League Cup 1st leg he was sensational.

 

[Ace Face]

Liverpool in the League Cup 1st leg he was sensational.

I wouldn’t go that far. He exceeded expectations but didn’t run the game or anything close to it. We were backs-against-the-wall and he had a very good game, but it’s easier to play in a low-block for the most part than it is in a really progressive system.

 

[thfcsteff]

not that we really have a choice, but do you?

Sorry? The question doesn't make sense to me.
I do have a choice. Yes. I can either sit here and grumble about something which doesn't check all my boxes, or take the overview that overall, RDZ is showing an enormous amount of ambition and being backed.

Would you be ok if we sold Vuskovic, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Romero, Odobert, Dragusin Tel and brought in Tonali, Savino, Fernandes plus those already through the door?

I would be OK with all except Gray and Tel. At a pinch only Gray's departure would upset me. FWIW we won't be selling Odobert this window will we. Of the other players...I am one of the few Cristian Romero fans here, however between the chemistry he has with the PL and our fanbase, I think it is time to sell. Vuskovic? I've commented already elsewhere, if he doesn't want a good loan, then sell. Gray? Keep! Bergy? Commented already elsewhere, for his benefit and ours, set him free and take the money (providing we are buying who we're connected with). Sarr? Sadly I'd sell because he is not going to be part of RDZ's plans. Radu? Sell. Tel? I'd keep, however if we are serious about signing Gapko, once Odobert is fit I suppose it will be between them as to who stays goes in Jan.

I've always felt a manager has to have some give, some part of helping the club outside of just his success remit, not sure I'm a 100% comfortable with jetsoning all our youth for the immediate now ..

I understand that. Your comfort versus the direction of traffic become the key elements here. If you wholly disagree with De Zerbi's apparent pathway, then I absolutely understand opposing it.

how is that any different from a Conte/Jose play?

OK. In Jose's case, it was built on a lie from him (I can win with the current squad) and seemingly a lie implied towards him by Levy (that he'd be backed in the fashion he expected). In Conte's case, we're somewhat at the same place, albeit (as I've said before) I thought Conte would walk at the first sign he didn't get exactly what he wanted.

This is not much different. The main difference appears to be that De Zerbi is being unequivocally backed as the ownership have placed themselves somewhat under a barrel. De Zerbi has the club where he (as a manager ) would want them, and understandably we (as a supporter group) are simply not used to this/have trouble believing it.

I think this is a real crossroads for all of us.
We have been used to a model which is youth driven and largely not executed very well. We have let down several very good players and it is poor. We have gambled on a manager who is not especially about development (he is not bad with youth but I'd agree he likes to go for it 'now').
I understand what is happening requires a large amount of belief. At this point, I choose to invest that belief.

 

[thfcsteff]

Lots more in full article

https://www.football.london/tottenh...as-bergvall-crazy-tottenham-transfer-34163887

Silence, training woes and a lost gem - Inside Lucas Bergvall's crazy Tottenham transfer situation​

From the outside the match with Postecoglou's successor Thomas Frank should have been perfect. Another Scandinavian and someone who would know Bergvall well.

Instead it just never really clicked. In contrast to his previous coaches, who had all looked to put an arm around the talented teenager, football.london understands the Dane did not speak to the young midfielder as much individually. Whether it was a ploy to keep Bergvall on his toes - those around some other young Spurs players speak of similar experiences - it instead created unease over whether the youngster was actually in Frank's plans or not.

The initial signs were that he was, starting four of the Dane's first six Premier League games, but he then had to settle for mostly a bench role or starring in the Champions League as he did on his competition debut against Villarreal.

Bergvall was in and out of Frank's plans and was left frustrated by playing everywhere but in his favoured number eight role, the position in which everyone expects him to blossom. Even in training he rarely found himself working on developing in that position as Frank would play him out on the wings at times or as a more advanced number 10, meaning nobody really seemed to know what he was.

There was a feeling from Bergvall's side that he wasn't being allowed to compete as a number eight and when Frank pushed for the signing of Conor Gallagher in January that only increased. Amid his growing frustration Spurs batted away interest from numerous clubs in the January transfer window with the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Aston Villa all showing interest.

Another ankle injury later that month meant he missed the end of the Dane's tenure and all but 45 minutes of Igor Tudor's brief stay in N17.

Things looked promising with De Zerbi's arrival and the Italian is said to have had a long chat with the young midfielder after their first training session together. Bergvall duly started his first game against Sunderland but then as the need for results became so important, De Zerbi turned to his experienced heads in Rodrigo Bentancur and Joao Palhinha, and even the out of favour Yves Bissouma, who was set to be released within a month.

I see that the 'friendly communicator' showed another side with this huge talent. And for being a great player developer, rather than guide him and nuture his natural skillset, he shoehorned him into that godawful 'style' he was trying to 'perfect'. Damage done!

 

[Ace Face]

I see that the 'friendly communicator' showed another side with this huge talent. And for being a great player developer, rather than guide him and nuture his natural skillset, he shoehorned him into that godawful 'style' he was trying to 'perfect'. Damage done!

But he’s such a “class act”….

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Liverpool in the League Cup 1st leg he was sensational.

He was very good but also should have been sent off

 

[Mikey10]

I see that the 'friendly communicator' showed another side with this huge talent. And for being a great player developer, rather than guide him and nuture his natural skillset, he shoehorned him into that godawful 'style' he was trying to 'perfect'. Damage done!

Although RDZ barely used him when given the chance either, and despite apparently having plenty of communication with the new manager Bergvall wants out.

I’d take anything £30 million or above. He’s struggling to get into a poor Swedish side and he wants to go. No point in him being here if he’s not committed and he hasn’t shown enough for me for us to be bending over backwards to keep him.

 

[robp135]

Although RDZ barely used him when given the chance either, and despite apparently having plenty of communication with the new manager Bergvall wants out.

I’d take anything £30 million or above. He’s struggling to get into a poor Swedish side and he wants to go. No point in him being here if he’s not committed and he hasn’t shown enough for me for us to be bending over backwards to keep him.

We can get at least £40M.

 

[Mikey10]

We can get at least £40M.

We should snatch someone’s arm off for that.

 

[Lost Mango]

Although RDZ barely used him when given the chance either, and despite apparently having plenty of communication with the new manager Bergvall wants out.

I’d take anything £30 million or above. He’s struggling to get into a poor Swedish side and he wants to go. No point in him being here if he’s not committed and he hasn’t shown enough for me for us to be bending over backwards to keep him.

I wouldn't take anything connected with Potter into account personally. Sweden are struggling so the last thing Play-it-Safe Potter would do is use an inexperienced, somewhat undisciplined younger player to try and improve things. He isn't enough of a risk taker.

Think it would be a shame if we lost him as he has/had potential but it would need a manager to be confident in him and to give him a proper run in his proper position with a proper functioning team around him (not a team built around him, just a proper team put together with thought and tactics), something we haven't seen in his time with us.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wouldn't take anything connected with Potter into account personally. Sweden are struggling so the last thing Play-it-Safe Potter would do is use an inexperienced, somewhat undisciplined younger player to try and improve things. He isn't enough of a risk taker.

Think it would be a shame if we lost him as he has/had potential but it would need a manager to be confident in him and to give him a proper run in his proper position with a proper functioning team around him (not a team built around him, just a proper team put together with thought and tactics), something we haven't seen in his time with us.

TBF the guy playing where Bergvall does has been their best player

 

[Bishop]

Tbf I can’t recall a game where Bergvall has made me think “holy s*** what an absolute gem we have on our hands!”. He’s had moments and decent games but nothing that has made me think he is the future of our midfield.

Whereas Gray has been rock solid in whichever position he’s shoehorned into. And the first leg against AM was a “holy s***” game for me.

He was faaaaar from rock solid at LB, he got taken to the cleaners, but I get your sentiment. Hes been promising on the rest of the roles he's had.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Think it would be a shame if we lost him as he has/had potential but it would need a manager to be confident in him and to give him a proper run in his proper position with a proper functioning team around him (not a team built around him, just a proper team put together with thought and tactics), something we haven't seen in his time with us.

We do

My fear is we are doing this and putting alot of faith in the club going out getting these targets.

People claiming that some are getting too protective over youth, the same can be laid at the faith being put in tbe club getting these game changers. Tonali, Fernandes and Co are one thing, when You then start going further down the lists that starts to raise other questions on the strategy IMO

People out in Spurs supporter land think we are getting Wharton and Co.....hmmm.

Let's see

 

[Ace Face]

He was faaaaar from rock solid at LB, he got taken to the cleaners, but I get your sentiment. Hes been promising on the rest of the roles he's had.

Can’t say I remember who he played against at LB. Remind me pls…

 

[Raziel]

Sorry? The question doesn't make sense to me.
I do have a choice. Yes. I can either sit here and grumble about something which doesn't check all my boxes, or take the overview that overall, RDZ is showing an enormous amount of ambition and being backed.




I would be OK with all except Gray and Tel. At a pinch only Gray's departure would upset me. FWIW we won't be selling Odobert this window will we. Of the other players...I am one of the few Cristian Romero fans here, however between the chemistry he has with the PL and our fanbase, I think it is time to sell. Vuskovic? I've commented already elsewhere, if he doesn't want a good loan, then sell. Gray? Keep! Bergy? Commented already elsewhere, for his benefit and ours, set him free and take the money (providing we are buying who we're connected with). Sarr? Sadly I'd sell because he is not going to be part of RDZ's plans. Radu? Sell. Tel? I'd keep, however if we are serious about signing Gapko, once Odobert is fit I suppose it will be between them as to who stays goes in Jan.



I understand that. Your comfort versus the direction of traffic become the key elements here. If you wholly disagree with De Zerbi's apparent pathway, then I absolutely understand opposing it.



OK. In Jose's case, it was built on a lie from him (I can win with the current squad) and seemingly a lie implied towards him by Levy (that he'd be backed in the fashion he expected). In Conte's case, we're somewhat at the same place, albeit (as I've said before) I thought Conte would walk at the first sign he didn't get exactly what he wanted.

This is not much different. The main difference appears to be that De Zerbi is being unequivocally backed as the ownership have placed themselves somewhat under a barrel. De Zerbi has the club where he (as a manager ) would want them, and understandably we (as a supporter group) are simply not used to this/have trouble believing it.

I think this is a real crossroads for all of us.
We have been used to a model which is youth driven and largely not executed very well. We have let down several very good players and it is poor. We have gambled on a manager who is not especially about development (he is not bad with youth but I'd agree he likes to go for it 'now').
I understand what is happening requires a large amount of belief. At this point, I choose to invest that belief.

Question was more friendly, wasn't really against anything you said. I don't disagree with RDZ's pathway, at some point we all have to say/admit whatever we were doing, it wasn't working.

As a fan, there is a connection with some players, a will for them to be more, to do their best, and that often is even more so with youth players, so I will say I'd feel a tinge of disappointment if Bergvall & Gray moved on.

Right now, I probably trust RDZ's vision more than those that had us 17th last season, and as with every manager we get, he'll have my backing in the beginning until he doesn't (if that makes any sense)